Soner Gogua: We have to work closer with the Diaspora.

In the conditions of economic crisis it is quite hard to be engaged in charity work, but in such situation such initiative is in demand more than ever. Today, when the republican extra-budgetary funds have problems with the formation of their budgets and mobilization of outstanding debts, the leadership of the established in 2015 International Fund "Apsny" could manage to attract to the implementation of the outlined tasks, not only local entrepreneurs, but also representatives of foreign Abkhaz diaspora. The President of the International Fund "Apsny" Sener Gogua shares how the idea of ​​creating the Fund had appeared and what are the main directions of its activities.

Interview to "Abkhazia-Inform"Agency.

S.Gogua: The idea of ​​creating an international non-governmental Fund was discussed at the time of Vladislav Ardzinba. I understand that the state can’t provide selective assistance to representatives of particular nationalities, because we are all citizens of a multinational state.

But we are well aware of the fact that the Abkhazians have their own special issues – it is the preservation of its ethnos, culture, language and history. When discussing the question of creating the Fund, we relied on the possible assistance of foreign Abkhaz Diaspora. Only Turkey hosts about 500 thousand Abkhazians, moreover the diaspora is represented in such countries as Jordan, Syria, Russia and some European countries. But at the difficult post-war period the idea of setting up such Fund seemed to be too hard to realize and it didn’t work.

Later, I discussed the topic of establishing the Fund with the Presidents of Abkhazia Sergey Bagapsh and Alexander Ankvab, but it failed again.  

The challenge was that the approach of the state heads to this issue was different from mine: they said that first you need to find funds for implementation, and only then make plans. But this is the wrong perception: if there is no idea how to utilize funds, no one ever would provide any funds. People need to know exactly where they are contributing their resources. That was the exact reason why we took a decision to set up the Fund, determine the basic directions of its future activities and afterwards to seek for funds for specific ideas.

A-I: What is the main purpose of establishing “Apsny” Fund?

S. Gogua: First of all, contribute to the improvement of the demographic situation in Abkhazia. We are all well aware, if we don’t help our citizens today, neither Paris nor Istanbul or Moscow won’t do it for us. Today, Russia – is a strategic partner of Abkhazia, Turkey – is an economic partner, has links with other countries. But each country primarily pursues its national interests. Yes, we have the financial and economic aid, and we are grateful for that. But there are problems we must solve ourselves - this is the problem of demography, language, culture, traditions, ethnic identity, etc.

These issues should be solved only by us. That's why we have created the Fund, first of all, in order to improve the demographic situation in Abkhazia. Today we assist only Abkhazian families and don’t hide it. We have a certain financial capacity, but, unfortunately, we can’t help all citizens, all the more, Russians living in Abkhazia are receiving assistance from Russia, Armenians get some support from Armenia.

But this is not the only reason ...

I live in Abkhazia for 24 years, I was here during the war, engaged in economic and political issues, and could never imagine that in 2015, still there will be very poor Abkhazian families.

In recent years, we have traveled through Abkhazian villages a lot: we were in Dzhgyarda, Lykhny, Kutol, saw Abkhazian families in which there are from 8 to 10 children. There is no furniture and household appliances in these houses, children go to bed half-starved, they do not attend schools, don’t get the necessary education, because they have nothing to wear.

Today we are talking about the return of repatriates to their historic homeland and creation of normal living conditions. Yes - it is right and there is a great need for that, and I have always supported this policy. But this raises the question: what should we do with those who live here experiencing serious difficulties? Look at our statistics – what is the number of children with cerebral spastic infantile paralysis? It's a serious trouble. And what about drug addiction, tuberculosis, HIV infections and fatal outcome accidents on the roads ... Many young people can’t afford to get married. There are unemployment problems. And which future are we talking about having so many problems? Who should deal with these issues?

A-I: Thirst of all the state ...

S. Gogua: I completely agree with you. But if the state runs out of have time or it doesn’t have opportunities? And why citizens who have such a possibility shouldn’t help the government in solving these problems? I came here when I was very young and today I have some financial possibilities, which, by the way, gave me my people, my country, so why shouldn’t I help them? I can buy a car for 60 thousand US Dollars and ride it, at the time when my neighbor is going to sleep hungry?!

Who should control this? Unfortunately, today we don’t have the appropriate national ideology. A lot of moral problems have accumulated. Principles of "Apsuara» are more declared than followed.

A-I: But everyone is too politicized in our society ...

S. Gogua: And what is more important politics or morality? Why do we choose deputies? To defend interests of people.

Using our Fund opportunities, we take active part in solving the problems faced by Abkhazians. We are implementing a number of projects, including those which the government didn’t start yet.

Each Abkhaz family in which there is a joyful event – for example the child was born, receives a gift from our Fund, a with special facilities for child care and education benefits for children. I have studied the experience of different countries in Europe, and I can assure you that our gift bag is much better, by the number of items in the package. Last year, 300 families received such packets. You should have seen the way people have taken them, and how much they thanked us. This year we expect to double the number of beneficiaries of this aid. And in 2017, we plan to provide financial assistance to families where the child was born, and the amount of aid will depend on whether the second, third or fourth child was born.

Our second ongoing project – is support for families with many children. We have many families where there are up to 10 children, and you know well the conditions in which they live, even if they get grants from the State it’s just 15 - 20 thousand rubles. It is clear that we are not able to solve all their problems, but we can buy household appliances for them - refrigerator, washing machine, TV, iron, electric pump etc. All this will cost about 60 thousand rubles. Is that such a big amount of money to help a large family create conditions for normal life?

You see how much money for example government officials spend for New Year corporate parties. Dinner per person in the restaurant - it is minimum one thousand rubles, and how many people can’t afford to buy fresh bread.

In 2015, we were buying household appliances once a month to one large family. From this year two families will receive such assistance each month.

The third project is developed to help large Abkhazian families to prepare children for school. Now we take care to give full support to 10 children - clothes and everything they need for school.

We are implementing the fourth project in cooperation with the charity Fund "Ashana" and the project will be directed to the treatment of children with cerebral spastic infantile paralysis. 80% of families who have appealed for help in 2015, there children was sick with cerebral palsy. There are three reasons for the development of the disease: genetic, intrauterine, and result of birth trauma. If we have so many children with such a disease, it means that this issue is not given an appropriate attention, something goes wrong, and as a result the child is born with a disability and families with children have to spend a lot of money on their treatment with unpredictable results.

Such children are not treated in Abkhazia they are only offered special physical exercises. When I started dealing with this issue, I learned that in China there is a special center, and if you bring a child at the age of under 2 years old, they will give a 100% guarantee of successful treatment of the child. So why are we taking children to Sochi and Moscow, without any guarantee and we don’t send them to such centers, although they are cheaper and the treatment is guaranteed.

Our Fund had signed a cooperation agreement with the charity Fund "Ashana". Our Fund annually allocates 800 thousand Rubles for treatment of four children with cerebral palsy.

Moreover, this year, we intend to invite renowned experts to Abkhazia from Russia and other countries to hold thematic round tables and conferences with the participation of our physicians, as well as to inform expectant mothers about how to behave during their pregnancy. We must identify the reasons why we have so many children born with cerebral palsy. We plan to create a counterpart of Chinese Center for cerebral palsy treatment.

The Fund can’t ignore issues of internal and foreign policy of our Republic.

Conducting round tables and conferences on topical issues of Abkhazia, business trips, signing various kinds of agreements – it is all also very important, but, in any case, demography questions is major for us.

Who are we building a state for, if the Abkhazians, who are the indigenous people, will become minority again? Pay attention to the birth statistics: if it continues this way, in 30 years there will be no single Abkhazian in Abkhazia, so the problem of demography is very important for us and takes the first place.

A-I: You have great plans. And still, where are you going to find funds to fulfill all your plans?

S. Gogua: we made a decision that we will not ask for money from anyone from the very beginning. We create a budget and plan what to do during one - two - three or even five years. But when we will be able to prove the people, parliament, government that we are able to work, maybe, they will have desire to help us. In 2015, we were working almost 8 months, and our budget was 6.3 million rubles. In 2016 this number will reach up to 11 million rubles. The increase in almost twice will give us the opportunity double our work. At the same time the main sponsor of the Fund remains my company "Abhazmorprom". If I myself will not help, then, how can I ask for help from others?

I will stress once again, that we didn’t ask anyone for help, but I am more than sure, that if people will see our particular job, they will offer their assistance. By the way, today my friends and representatives of the Abkhaz diaspora in Turkey gave me a call with specific proposals.

But still the main source of our Fund finance will be different in 2016. Remember how once was said: "If each of our compatriots will transfer 1 - 2 Dollars per month to Abkhazia, we can get 500 - 600 thousand dollars." In the early postwar years, it was impossible, but with today's technology it is quite possible. I traveled to Turkey many times and resolved this question: there is SMS-system, through which it will be possible to transfer money to Abkhazia.

We have many thousands of Abkhaz-Circassian Diaspora, and each Abkhazian, Adige or others who wish to help us will send SMS stating the amount, up to 40% of which (depending on the contract with the operators, as they have large shipping cost) will be transferred to the Fund account . For the representative of the Diaspora to send an SMS at the cost of one - two dollars once a month is not expensive. All information on received Funds and their use will be available on the Fund’s website. Even now we have all the information about the Fund finances and its expenditures.

A: Maybe it’s better to open a bank account in Turkey and receive funds directly, in order to avoid such heavy losses, and then forward them to Abkhazia?

S. Gogua: According to the legislation of Turkey such kind of operation seems impossible. Abkhazia is not recognized by Turkey, but sending SMS messages is not a problem, we are working on launching such a system, explaining the representatives of our Diaspora which kind of work is carried out by Fund in Abkhazia. And I hope that in the future we will get a great assistance from our diaspora.

A-I: So, that means that the main hope of your Fund is the Diaspora?

S. Gogua: Basically, yes.

A: You are a quite wealthy person and are actively engaged in charity. But why so many wealthy people who spend a lot of money on entertainment, don’t want to spend even a Ruble for Charity?

S. Gogua: I can only speak for myself. On funds which were contributed by me for charity, I could build my own three-store house, buy a fancy jeep, travel several times a year to rest abroad, moreover, buy a house there. But it wouldn’t have given me such a pleasure as I get now, when I see the glowing eyes of children and hear words of their parent’s appreciation, or when I see that sick children feel better. The smile of the baby and mother's tears of joy, their prayers for you - this is the biggest happiness and pleasure.

I believe in God and in our people, and I know, that if today we don’t help those who are in need, no one will do it for us! Yes, we have people whose children are studying abroad, whose wives are resting on the world-famous resorts and their relatives, neighbors barely make both ends meet. Unfortunately, people stopped helping relatives and namesakes who are in need­­­, but it is not religion, not "Apsuara", not human at all.

We all have plans for the future, we all want to live better, but believe me, none of us become poor if we give to charity 5% of our income.

When I started dealing closely with children with cerebral palsy, it became clear, that some wealthy families with sick children also don’t know where they have to appeal. They also need help with getting information about where you can treat the child.

It is better not to wait help from the State in these questions. Because the State is not enough strong and economically developed.

That’s why, first of all, we believe in ourselves:  we drew up the Fund budget for five years ahead. The main sponsors of the Fund, and it is up to 80% of the total budget, - is "Abhazmorprom", "Denta Medical" and "Khimprom" companies. All of us are citizens of Abkhazia, it's our money, and even if no one else will help the Fund, it will still work. But still we hope to our Diaspora: around the world there are nearly one million Abkhazians and I think that they want to help their historical homeland. And we will prove by work that their money is being used properly.

A-I: Soner, you're one of the first returnees-repatriates arrived to Abkhazia before the war. When you were coming back to your motherland, you probably didn’t think that here you will be given an apartment or a piece of land. So, why those who come today say about different conditions?

S. Gogua: Because no one seriously works with our repatriates, explains what the real opportunities are in Abkhazia for them. Take, for example, the situation with Abkhazians from Syria: how much money is spent on them, how much assistance is rendered, and half of them left back, although the war is still going on in Syria.

We have to work with them, explain that this is their homeland, and that the future of Abkhazia and preservation of the Abkhaz statehood depends on them, their active participation in the economic life of the country. But if we just promise them: "Come back home and we will create all conditions" – the same will happen to them as with Abkhazians from Syria.

We don’t need just to increase the number of repatriates. Believe me, even with the representatives of all nationalities living in Abkhazia, whatever we do; Abkhazians will not be a few millions.

But we need healthy, educated people with an active lifestyle.

It is necessary to work seriously with the Diaspora, tell our compatriots the truth, and not instill them the false illusions.

Today Abkhazia is a home to 100 thousand Abkhazians, in 15 and even 30 years they will not be 300 - 400 million. That’s why it is necessary to deal with the repatriation issues, involve the active, willing to work for the benefit of their motherland people. In addition, it is necessary to pay priority attention to the issues of quality education, health and creation of new jobs for the younger generation. It is necessary to bring in a sense of patriotism to young people.

This is the state ideology! Patriot – is a person who wants to improve relations with the world, but always remembers about his homeland.

A-I: That means the basic rate should be made on internal resources, rather than attracting repatriates?

S. Gogua: Using internal resources and work with foreign diaspora should be conducted in parallel. But we should remember that the repatriation - is not only an increase the number of Abkhazians. Returning to their historical homeland - it is, above all, the restoration of historical justice. These people forcefully had to leave their historical motherland, and we must give them the opportunity to return. But before they arrive, they must be aware of our reality, our internal and external policies and all the existing problems. It is necessary to train people, to tell them the truth, and not entertain any illusions.

The experience of resettlement of Abkhazians from Syria and Turkey showed that they expected something completely different from Abkhazia. But if they knew more about the real life in Abkhazia and what are the conditions there and what state can provide them maybe they would not have come. Those who know the real situation should come to Abkhazia, and those who are willing to stay here to live and work, not those who hope to get a house or money, and if they face with problems to sell everything and go back.

We need people who are coming not just to get some help from the state, but those who will live here. When we, the first repatriates arrived to Abkhazia, we had nothing - no business, no money. But we stayed and earned money by ourselves.

Do you know how our generation came to Abkhazia? A few years before the war, Kandid Tarba came to Turkey and created a dance group. Honestly, we absolutely had no interest in dance classes, but we understood that participation in the ensemble will help us to go to Abkhazia and see our brothers and the homeland of our ancestors.

They were working with us in the Abkhaz cultural center, told a lot about Abkhazia, its life, and when we came here, nothing surprised us.

Same thing happened during the war. Young people who came here have made a conscious choice. And imagine, if no one from the representatives of Abkhazian diaspora came to defend their homeland? Could we speak today about the development of relations with our diaspora? And would the Diaspora have a right to that? Believe me; the relationship would have been very different.

100 people who came to war from Turkey saved our current relationships and thank these guys, today we can say that our Diaspora helped and supported us in difficult times.

But once again, representatives of the diaspora need to know the real situation and deal with real things and not only take photos in the offices with authorities or sit with them at festive tables.

A.I.-Every now and then I communicate with repatriates and no matter what may be said, there is no single radical Muslim among them, some even don’t go to the mosque. There is some kind of concern among our citizens that if a large number of repatriates will come back to their motherland Islam will be widely spread in Abkhazia, why do they have such worries?

S.Gogua: Rejection, I think, is due to our recent history, with the Soviet period. It has been 150 years since the time of exile, we are different people, have different religions, but we are - one nation and it must be remembered!

Why the exile happened? Who can tell the truth today? We often refer to the Russian Empire, but it is only part of the truth. There is one more important factor - the internal, which is preferred to remain silent.

Muhajirs were forcefully exiled, without knowing what awaits them there. It didn’t happen for no particular reason. And the answer is simple: my grandfather, who died at the age of 112 years, once told me, "Soner, the biggest problem was in us! A neighbor was killing his neighbor, brother was shooting his brother. We didn’t want to fight with each other, that’s why, we were forced to choose the path of Muhajir". These gold words are written in our family history. That means that, our internal condition played a very important role, when the part of the population was for the Russian Empire, and some - for Georgia, some - for the Ottoman Empire, and another part considering themselves patriots, could preserve "Apsuara". Doesn’t it remind you the current situation?

We don’t talk about our national ideology, we are afraid to talk about our interests. Today who thinks about own interests of Abkhazia, who cares about the preservation of traditions "Apsuara"?

A-I: Well, we often hide behind talking about following "Apsuara" traditions or remember the code of moral behavior of Abkhazians in a difficult situation ...

S. Gogua: You are absolutely right! So why are we afraid of the truth? I often hear as it is said, «Turkish Abkhazians, who are in fact Turks, will come to Abkhazia, and bring here the Turkish influence." Such words contribute to the fact that many people, including Russian experts fear the repatriation process, the Turkish influence and Islamism. But to fear and deny – will never give a positive result. It is necessary to open and control the road - it is effective and supported by international practice.

And if today there are religious Muslims in Abkhazia, we don’t have to prohibit it, we have to support them, preventing the spread of radical Islam, which creates terrorist groups.

Islam - is a great religion. In the Koran it is written, that taking a person's life – is a greatest sin! It is said that you can’t take people's property! Allah will never forgive you!

25 million citizens profess Islam in Russia. So why should we be afraid of Islam in Abkhazia? We are not talking about radical Islamists, Wahhabism. This shouldn’t be allowed in Abkhazia.

Repatriates returning from Turkey to their historical homeland, come here not for the sake of religion, but in order to live in the Abkhazian environment. For us, the first place takes Apsuara, not a religion. Those who think primarily about Islam, make Hadj, go to Saudi Arabia and other Islamic countries.

I would like to pay attention to one political circumstance. 100 thousand Abkhazians live in Abkhazia, 500 thousand- in Turkey. What will be the future of Abkhazia as a state, if the Turkish Abkhazians will equally vote for the president, Parliament Deputies, because according to the law on citizenship of the Republic of Abkhazia all of them are automatically citizens of the Republic. That means that the fate of Abkhazia can be solved not by local people but by Diaspora. Such fears are clearly present in our society.

But as it was several times repeated, we must work with the Diaspora, and not from time to time, but always. It is necessary to go through towns and villages, inhabited by representatives of the Abkhaz diaspora, conduct outreach policy, inform people about life in Abkhazia, problems and prospects of its development, its allies and enemies.

Diaspora is well aware of the tragic history of the Russian-Abkhazian relations of nineteenth century, and today Abkhazia signs an agreement on cooperation and strategic partnership with Russia, on the establishment of a common security space defense and cooperation in various fields. And so it is necessary to explain to the representatives of the diaspora, what Russia makes for us, why we are developing relationship with her, why Russia is our strategic partner. And then people’s fear will disappear.

When I was very young, we were told that Russia and the Russian people are the enemies. But after I arrived to Abkhazia, I saw that Russians - are very different people. Today, I have many friends among Russians, I always go to visit them, and there are no problems between us. These are not people we were told about and not the state, which we had been threatened by. We can live close to each other, work, and have friendly relations.

This once again confirms my idea of ​​the need for constant, purposeful work with the Diaspora.

A-I: And what can be done in the current situation?

S. Gogua: You mean today's conflict between Russia and Turkey? Representatives of some structures had already contacted me about this issue, saying let's start to work with the Diaspora and make them support Abkhazia's policy against Turkey. Excuse me dear friends, but where have you been before? Back in 2008, when I was a Member of Parliament, I constantly was suggesting to start an active work with the Diaspora, to conduct explanatory policy, so they have a better understanding and support us.

The first meeting with the Abkhaz diaspora in Turkey was held in Istanbul, at the Russian consulate, and the Minister of Foreign Affairs of the Russian Federation Sergey Lavrov also participated in a meeting. And this work should have been continued! If we had been constantly working in this direction, today our Diaspora would be well aware of the importance of our friendship and the strategic partnership with Russia. And today, they would have actively supported us in such matters.

And just to require the representatives of the Abkhaz diaspora in Turkey to do or not to do something is absurd. We shouldn’t forget that they are citizens of Turkey and they will not act against their own state. But if we had been constantly working with them, carrying out our own ideology, then, I'm sure they would do everything possible what is in their power to avoid the steps that have recently taken Turkey against Russia.

Battered Russian plane - is just an excuse. The fact that Turkey's foreign policy has changed. They knew perfectly well what will be the consequences of an attack on a Russian military aircraft, which problems will occur.

What did the United States and Europe give Turkey? Nothing! Moreover, they didn’t allow Turks to develop their own markets and build their own policy. The fundamental interest of Turkey is in one thing - the need to develop relations with its neighbors, and first of all with Russia! In 2008, the Prime Minister of Turkey Ahmet Davutoglu suggested Turkey's foreign policy doctrine called "Zero problems with neighbors", and now Turkey has - "zero neighbors!" They have way with Greece, with Syria, with Russia! And how are they going to create strong a Turkish state if they have constant problems with their neighbors?

This is the wrong policy! There are a very serious and influential people, including representatives of our diaspora in the political and economic circles of Turkey. And if we actively worked with the Diaspora, its representatives would be able to somehow influence the situation. They would be able to explain that Turkey cannot build relationship with the United States and Europe, offending nearest neighbor.

I can’t work with the Diaspora by myself; it requires a national approach and assistance from Russia.

For example, if we had a satellite TV in Abkhazia, would it impede us? The independent state on the satellite channel is broadcasting in Turkish, Abkhazian, Arabic and other languages, thereby conducting its policy among the diaspora, is it bad? We would have explained the Diaspora, what is happening, why Russia is a strategic partner of Abkhazia, why we have chosen this path of development of the state and ensure stability in the region. We could have a daily broadcast in the countries, where a large Abkhaz diaspora live.

I offered to do it in 2008, but we did not have money for this. And now there are discussions of closing the borders and trade.

A-I: You didn’t say anything about another project: You award people, who achieved significant success in their professional activities.

S. Gogua: Yes, this is another project. You know, during the Soviet times, people were encouraged for their professional activities. People are doing something useful for the state and people, and it is necessary to know about it, and even better – to acknowledge achievements. We decided to find and acknowledge primarily young people who have attained some success in professional activities annually. Young people- are our future.

Today we have the talented young people who work in different fields. For example in sport everyone knows the wrestler Denis Tsargush or 15-year-old tennis player, European champion Alain Avidzba. They all represent Abkhazia, and what could be better for foreign policy! Or the teacher Esma Tarba, who travels every day to Gal district and teaches Abkhazian language there. She is a true patriot. Doesn’t she deserve to be awarded? A doctor-Gamgiya Nart, who returned from Moscow to Abkhazia and is working in a military hospital. Or repatriate Zvanba Jamal, who has invested two million dollars and is developing his own business in Abkhazia - here is an example for all investors. Don’t they deserve to be encouraged?

That’s why we have organized such an event. Unfortunately, we presented not such a great gifts, but I think that in this situation the most important thing - is a moral side of the issue.

A-I: Thank you for the interview. We wish you success in the charitable activities of your Fund.

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